[Copy-pasted from Cent using Dooble, as I wrote about.
Next will be one of Waterfox, SeaMonkey, or Cliqz.
First of all, I agree that the data dumping here is rather long and extensive.
I don't dispute that. Here's why I'm doing it:
1. I can't copy-paste from notepad to Honest now, apparently.
2. Yours doesn't have replies to comments.
3. Facebook doesn't have hyperlinking.
So, I'm not posting here for money or anything else (though it's always nice), except my own convenience of being able to look back at the browsers, search engines, and so forth, to test them out. And if you find any of interest, you can also give them a look and try :)
(I suppose now that the draft feature is here I should just start on Cent so I don't have to manually put all the enter/paragraphs back in.)
I'm making this post for two reasons:
1. My phone's internal means for charging - the inlet for the adapter cord… isn't working so well, so the main way I have to charge it is via the Q adapter I got a while ago that charges really slowly. So I'm looking to do stuff that I was doing on my phone, on my laptop, such as communicating via messengers like Viber.
2. I recently heard DuckDuckGo isn'topen source. (But theystriveto be.)
(x. AltDuckDuckGo: Not open source. Has open source elements.
Working to be more open source; donates to open source projects.
Interview with maker, Gabriel Weinberg
Bill also mentioned Replicant (Wiki)
x. (Wiki) Vivaldi. Vivaldi is about 90% open source, apparently.
In checking up on things, I found out, nor is MX5 (Wiki).)
"Fast and Private Brave Browser Chooses Qwant as its Default Search Engine in France and Germany" Didn't know that either.
So: I've had a cursory interest in open-source browsers, search engines, and phones, but now with my phone on the outs, I'm looking into it again. I don't want to get a new phone that's anything less than the closest toward freedom that I can manage. I've had my Samsung S7 for around 2 years.
Therefore, I've started a search for all the options, of browsers, search engines, and phones, that are open source. This won't be a test of the quality of the browsers, search engines, or phones, but my listing of as many of them as I can find.
Really, Cent? You can't keep the ) in the link?
For all those ), it's in regard to: [browser name]_(web_browser).
So when you find yourself with a broken link, just add ) at the end.
WikiNetSurf, Wiki) Basilisk, Wiki) Brave, WikiCliqz, Wiki) Chromium,
WikiDillo, WikiDooble, WikiELinks, WikiFalkon, WikiGNU IceCat,
WikiK-Meleon, WikiKonqueror, Wiki) Wiki Links, Wiki) Wiki Lynx,
Wiki) Midori, WikiFirefox, Wiki) Pale Moon, WikiSeaMonkey, Wiki) surf,
WikiWaterfox, WikiGNOME Web, [Wikiw3m, w3mmee, current version]
-AltSearx.me, searx.org, AltYaCy and search portal example,
AltDisconnect Search, plus free tool with paid options,
AltGigablast, AltMetaGer… is in German?,
AltFind, AltJive Search, AltPresearch, Qwant
-"Top 5" -- Elasticsearch, Apache Solr, Apache Lucene, Sphinx, Xapian
-Also, Indri (pdf (nowLemur? Wiki)), ZettairWiki
Open source phones
"Hands On Unbuntu Phone"
"Ubuntu Phone Sells Out During First Flash Sale"
"410: Page deleted
Ubuntu for phone is no longer supported"
Phone launch news, in India
"Community collaborates on new convergent Ubuntu phones"
Searching on site for open source phone
"Ubuntu comes to the phone, with a beautifully distilled interface and a unique full PC capability when docked"
"Growing Ubuntu for cloud and IoT, rather than phone and convergence"
List of open source mobile phones
-Neo900 (Available for preorder)
Hm. "No featured products at this time."
Though, on a still active forum thread, looks like there's a cry for help:
"Team is too small for such a complex project."
"spread the word, find more supporters"
"'I wish the Neo900 release announcement was around the corner so we could quickly change topic and get back to the device.[Edit] I'm not usually one to call off-topic and be boring about it, I like off-topic almost all the time, it is often very enriching. However here it's just a little fight over some silly argument after someone just mentioned one famous guy's opinion, to illustrate something about the Neo900. He didn't say that guy is his god or mentor, nor that he needs or follows his opinions.
This topic is mainly made of little fights among posters or big fights against the Neo900 project maintainers. While it is true that we are all frustrated and concerned about how relevant will be the device if/when it's out, there is no doubt those guys have been hard at work and have not counted their paid hours (otherwise it would be over already), it doesn't look so fair to just feed the topic with this kind of vibrations. (Now I guess I managed to be really boring, but hey. :>)'
So close the thread until there's something to say - would that be an option?"
"While I agree that there are parts expenditures, I happen to think that paychecks would not have been written without a good reason (such as, necessity for food and roof and water). They have to make sure that funds aren't depleted, that the funds are still here for reaching production stage, for being able to make the devices without asking for a 2k EUR price from buyers - they don't want a crowd of people complaining and refusing to buy the final device.
It does look like they are working on a board, at first glance. But they are also sourcing N900s, from China and the like, to be able to ship full devices to those who either don't have an N900 device to put the board into, or don't wish to risk breaking something while inserting new board into old device.While Neo900 team isn't working directly on an OS, they are cooperating with Devuan and Fremantle Porting Task Force to move Maemo 5 to the newest Linux kernel and the like."
-Samsung Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4. Oddly, Z2 goes to Z4 rather than Z3.
-Librem 5 (Available for preorder)
"In 2017, Purism started a crowdfunding campaign for Librem 5, a smartphone aimed not only to run purely on the free software provided in PureOS, but to "[focus] on security by design and privacy protection by default". Purism claimed that the phone would become "the world's first ever IP-native mobile handset, using end-to-end encrypted decentralized communication." Purism cooperated with KDE and GNOME in its development of Librem 5."
Curiously, the one listed as cheaper is only so on the first page.
What a high tax rate of 21%!
-Ubuntu Touch [Maintained by community]
-MeizuMX5, MX6 (Community driven)
Seems to be mainly available in China; buy page is in Chinese.
-Openmoko seems to have stopped in 2012, but I can't tell if there is a current phone version; seems there's a YouTube channel.
The latest video is only 10 months old:
An interesting corollary linux website
-NECUNOS ("Temporarily unavailable")
"Necunos NC_1 First Batch has ended. Stay tuned for the second one!"
"Necunos NC_1 and NE_1 Press Release"
"Necunos NC_1 is an expensive, open source phone-shaped… thing"
"Necunos NC_1 is a Pricey Open Source Linux “Phone” without Modem"
Open Source Mobile Software
"OpenBTS.org is an open source software project dedicated to revolutionizing mobile networks by substituting legacy telco protocols and traditionally complex, proprietary hardware systems with Internet Protocol and a flexible software architecture. This architecture is open to innovation by anybody, allowing the development of new applications and services and dramatically simplifying the setting up and operation of a mobile network."
"Asterisk is an open source framework for building communications applications. Asterisk turns an ordinary computer into a communications server. Asterisk powers IP PBX systems, VoIP gateways, conference servers and other custom solutions. It is used by small businesses, large businesses, call centers, carriers and government agencies, worldwide. Asterisk is free and open source. Asterisk is sponsored by Digium."
DIY and DIY-related open source phones
"An Open Source, Dirt Cheap, Linux-powered Smartphone Is Here""…that’s powered by Raspberry Pi Zero. It runs on Linux and you can make one for yourself using parts worth $50. One can use it to make calls and SMS, run apps, and pentesting."
"Making your own phone is easier than you might think"
"Open Source Cell Phone"
"In short, I'm building and programming an open source hardware and software cell phone, that anyone can build, and hopefully with these instructions buy the parts and have one working in a day.""My goal is to have a single, handheld, portable, fits in pocket lasts a few hours, open source top to bottom, cell phone."
His video on the project:
"Do-it-yourself cellphones: an investigation into the possibilities and limits of high-tech diy"
-"ArduinoPhone 2.0 - an Open Source Mobile Phone"
-"PiPhone – A Raspberry Pi based Smartphone"
Found a new video site during my searches: PeerTube. To join.
OS alternatives - list of 7:
1. Kai OS, 2. Tizen, 3. Plasma Mobile, 4. postmarketOS,
2. Librem, 6. LineageOS, 7. eelo [Under Development]
"Why is there no FOSS phone OS?"
Want to try a GitHub or GitLab that's actually open source? Try Sr.ht:
"GitHub alternative strives to be all open source, only open source"
During my listening to Bill Ottman and the others, an ad for Ecosia popped up, about doing searches to plant trees via the profit made, which I think is a great idea. However, per this post: Is it open source?
On the FAQ for advertisers is some… unsettling info:
"Like other search engines, Ecosia is partnered up with one of the two oligopoly search providers in the West, Microsoft (the other obviously being Google, with with 80% market share). We are very transparent about our partnership with Microsoft. They provide our search results, and all of our advertisement is managed through the Bing portal.
Therefore, if you want to advertise on Ecosia, then you need to advertise on Bing. Bu with a little trick, you can exclude some or all other partners from Bing’s partner network. This article explains how."
I've installed it on my Brave browser, but I'm not sure I want to use it. But I'm conflicted, because planting trees with searches sounds cool. I wonder if I could contact them and ask them about using open source search engines.
"I wish they were partnered with Google instead of Bing, because Bing creates as much pollution as Ecosia gets rid of, so it kind of cancels it out. If they were partnered with Google, which creates much less pollution, they would help the environment a lot more."
So, I'm really split about this one. It looks like a really cool project.
But damn… Google and Bing? I guess it's a great search engine to promote to your friends that still use privacy-insensitive google?
But do you really want to entrench bad habits like that?
Part 2: First Test Of All Easy Install Browsers
In my previous post, "Looking For Exclusively Open Source Browsers and Search Engines, Part 2: First Test Of All Easy Install Browsers", I tested all of the easy-to-install open-source browsers I could find on my Windows computer. If you haven't read Part 1: Casting A Wide Net, here it is.
I'm at another place, where I have a high-end Mac, and I'm curious what the results will be when tried on a Mac.
So, I'll be trying:
1. Basilisk, 2. Waterfox, 3. Netsurf, 4. SeaMonkey,
5. K-Meleon, 6. Midori, 7. Cliqz, 8. Falkon, 9. Dooble
I started with Basilisk, since "On Basilisk, copy-paste works flawlessly."
However, Basilisk is only downloadable on Windows.
I'm finding that here on the Mac, on Waterfox -- the first browser I've started with -- I'm not able to copy to the title, but I can copy the body of the text just fine.
Let's see what else I can get on the Mac.
Was able to download Netsurf. Mac didn't like the app and I had to open it as unverified. In trying to go to Honest, Netsurf said it ran out of memory. I tried to go to memo.cash. Same thing. And then it crashed. I chose for it to reopened. Tried again. It crashed. Ok. Next.
Same start with SeaMonkey being unverified. Wants access to my contacts? That's weird, but ok.
Now… can I copy paste the title? And body?
Yes to both looks like! Impressive!
Ok, next. Oh weird when I hover over the name/text/link, the browser wants to search the name instead of treating it like a link. The link displays below the name and you need to click that to open it in a new tab.
Is an .exe and Mac doesn't recognize it. Next. I'm still not sure if SeaMonkey keeping the x for all the tabs to the very right regardless is a boon or a bane.
I'm used to each tab having an x, but maybe this is a better way.
Is only for Windows and Android.
Smooth installation. Was able to copy both title and body. Nice.
Is only for Windows and Linux.
I'm not sure how to install it. Wait. I found a .dmg file.
Was able to copy both title and text.
Ok. So, Waterfox, SeaMonkey, Cliqz, and Dooble worked.
Now, let's see if they can do it from a raw run from a non-Honest site; I'll use them to copy paste from Cent and perhaps other places, such as the first post that I wasn't able to do initially.
Test 1 with Dooble: Success.
Test 2 with Cliqz: Failed. Only the title transferred.
Test 3 with SeaMonkey: Failed. Only the title transferred.
Test 4 with Waterfox: Failed. Only the title transferred.
Wow. All of them failed except Dooble.
I would like to not see an/my entire point without formatting being shown until I actually click on the post. I want a condensed version that is predominantly hidden so my longer posts don't take up my entire wall and I have to scroll like crazy and maybe miss where my other posts are.
And I'm also not sure that asking about features on our own posts is the most ideal way to go about talking about features. I suppose I need to go on Telegram?
Interesting. On Basilisk, copy-paste works flawlessly.
And I don't have to redo paragraphs! Geesh that was annoying on Cent!
I've also gotten tired of Cent making editing a PITA by making every YouTube link auto-embed regardless of whether it's hyperlinked or not, which forces me to manually put it back in EVERY SINGLE TIME.
So, I'm putting part 2 here. Part 1 is on Cent. Maybe I'll put it on here too.
(Nope, won't copy-paste from Cent.)
Ok, so I can't do multiple drafts. That would be a nice feature to have.
Cent does, though it's relatively new.
So, on with Part 2:
I'm going with easy installation:
Click and install, just as you would would any application.
Thus, I did not install:
1. Dillo, 2. Chromium, 3. ELinks, 4. GBUzilla, 5. Links
6. KDE, 7. Lynx, 8. surf, 9. GNOME, 10. w3m & w3mme
Accordingly, I have installed:
1. Waterfox, 2. Netsurf, 3. SeaMonkey, 4. Basilisk
5. K-Meleon, 6. Midori, 7. Cliqz, 8. Falkon, 9. Dooble
I predominatly used SeaMonkey to download and install the rest of the browsers. Though I rather randomly went through and numbered them, for the sake of clarity I'm going to review them in the order I numbered them.
The wiki intro:
"Waterfox is an open-source web browser for 64-bit operating systems, with an aim to be speedy and ethical, and maintain support for legacy extensions dropped by Firefox, from which it is forked. There are official releases for 64-bit Windows (including a portable version), macOS, 64-bit Linux and 64-bit Android."
"Waterfox differs from Firefox in a number of ways by:
Disabling Web Runtime
Removing Adobe DRM
Removing data collection
Removing startup profiling
Allowing running of all 64-bit NPAPI plugins
Allowing running of unsigned extensions
Removing of Sponsored Tiles on New Tab Page
Addition of locale selector in about:preferences > General
Defaulting to Ecosia as the search engine instead of Google or Yahoo!
Asking for permission before using Encrypted Media Extensions (EME)"
I wonder if it's on mobile too.
Yes it is.
Anything wrong with it?
Whoa why is Bing the default right-click search?
Can I change that?
Yes. I changed it to Qwant for the time being.
Ok. Found something:
"I've seen mixed reviews on benchmark tests for speed, but I think probably Waterfox generally does a TINY bit better.
How is it for security? It probably has fewer people working on it and may have gone in a different direction since the original deviation from Firefox (or is a new Waterfox created based on every new iteration of Firefox?) I'm wondering, from a netsec perspective, is there a difference?"
"Porting and maintaining Firefox to support a new compiler is a large project. Once a port is running there's often a large number of critical test failure and correctness issues. I can't really find information on Waterfox QA and testing automation process. I wouldn't risk correctness & stability issues for tiny performance wins."
Well, the rest of the comments are super lukewarm.
This post is marked 2018:
"Waterfox for Android update brings huge privacy improvements"
"The new version is available on Google Play and soon also on the alternative marketplace for Android applications F-Droid.
The developer of Waterfox, Alex Kontos, released the new Android version of the web browser with big privacy improvements that should appeal to Android users who are interested in privacy.
The new version is based on Tor and features all the privacy improvements that Tor developers added to the base Firefox version the project is based on."
It's also on F-Droid?
I'll check that.
Nope, it is not. (Yet, I guess.)
As is this one:
"> They see this kind of ads as necessary to keep the browser alive long-term.
Firefox won’t be kept alive “long-term”, for technical reasons. Chrome has 70%+ market share and uses the Blink engine. Opera uses Blink, too. And so does Brave, Vivaldi, Chromium etc. Microsoft has announced that Edge will be switching to Blink early next year. Sooner than we think Blink is going to have 90%+ market share. Website admins will optimize for Blink and for Blink only. The last remaining alternative rendering engines with a combined market share of roughly 10% Won’t be tested against one by one for time / efficiency reasons.
Mozilla is going to create a Blink-based browser eventually and Firefox will be its name, but it will only be a shell and won’t have anything in common with Firefox as we know it. This is basically inevitable. For the masses, Firefox has no advantage to speak of, and Chrome is available on all platforms for which Firefox is available.
Firefox has a third of the market share it once had, and Blink has a de facto monopoly. Mozilla is going to monetize the hell out of Firefox while they still can, and then they will gut if for FireChrome."
"The same thing happened with Opera. … Over time though, the management changed, the founders left, and the people in charge became more concerned about maximizing profits than maintaining a unique product with a dedicated user base. …
Then, the beta for the new Opera came out, and it was literally just a bare-bones Chromium reskin with what amounted to a couple small extensions built in, and a couple other standard Chromium features cut out. It in no way resembled the Internet suite that once was, and pretty much everything that kept Opera’s dedicated users with the browser for years was stripped out. They didn’t just switch rendering engines, but effectively discontinued developing their browser and replaced it with a low-maintenance reskin of a browser developed by other companies.
I quickly dropped it as my primary browser for Firefox, and later a Firefox derivative. And it looks to me like Firefox is moving in the same direction. Much like Opera was beginning to do in their later years, they are starting to cut out features and mess with the interface in questionable ways, and it doesn’t seem like they care much about how the long-term users who promoted their browser for years feel about it. The next step might be to cut out that expensive browser development, and just become a generic, low-maintenance Chromium clone to maximize profits."
Well, it's a nice browser.
Don't really know what I'll do with it yet.
So far it doesn't seem to be eating my RAM like Firefox does.
Oh holy shit:
"Tor will soon start publishing *OFFICIAL* (and not from the Guardian Project — and thanks a lot to them especially the n4fr4s guy!) Tor Browser builds for Android that are audited for leakage etc (the alphas will be released VERY soon). So do NOT use this if you want the same protection and prevention from leakage as the official builds for Android, of course, you can use Waterfox+Tor if you do not seriously care about privacy and want just some level of protection — which is still better than Google’s-keylogger-in-your-address-bar-disguised-as-a-search-engine-Chrome-but-nobody-cares-anyway-so-it’s-okay-but-muuuh-google-be-doing-security-n-stuff-spectre-mitigation-n-stuff.
Anonymous said on August 19, 2018 at 12:59 am
“you can use Waterfox+Tor if you do not seriously care about privacy and want just some level of protection — which is still better than Google’s-keylogger-in-your-address-bar-disguised-as-a-search-engine-Chrome”
Well in Waterfox desktop at least, the keylogger-in-your-address-bar-disguised-as-a-search-engine inherited from Firefox, aka address bar search suggestions, is unfortunately still on by default. Like in Firefox there’s an option to disable it. I haven’t tried on android yet.
Sending by default address bar typos to the search engine also has to be disabled in about:config (keyword.enabled=false). At least address bar speculative pre-connections are disabled by default, but maybe just because it was only enabled in Firefox 57.
That’s already 3 different ways invented by Mozilla to spy on us, just using typing in the address bar. Those guys deserve a trophy for their creative minds."
"Anonymous said on August 19, 2018 at 11:28 am
@klaas I don’t know. My reference for nasty features is the ghacks list :
The 800 section of the list is about address bar and search bar. There is a pref
to “disable location bar making speculative connections” and a bug reference
I don’t think that I have seen them talk about the search bar doing that too.
To avoid any misunderstanding, speculative connections are not the same thing as search suggestions ; it’s a thing that starts connecting (via dns, tcp, tls) to an address you’re still typing even before you hit Enter, the excuse being that it speeds up navigation. I suppose it’s more meaningful to have that crap in the address bar rather than in the search bar.
However the search bar certainly has the keylogger (search suggestions) too. This is less bad here as it is intended for search anyway, contrary to the address bar, but still I prefer to disable it in the options personally."
"Okay so the point of the Waterfox Android version is to not be *exactly* Tor, as that would be pointless – it’s not competing with Tor, nor does it have the same goals. Tor ideally is used to bypass censorship, help people around the world have a voice and share information without fear of reprimand.
For Waterfox, I wanted a happy medium – so FYI this version is based on the Tor branch (tor-browser-60.1.0esr-8.0-1), but configured to be a bit easier for a general user to use. Doesn’t seem that outrageous to me?"
"John said on August 19, 2018 at 12:14 am
That Waterfox was based on a Firefox 4 version numbers or from 24 months ago (if they are still going to a new version ever 6 weeks) until just now is concerning. Are they backporting security and web compatibility patches? Is there a plan for them to keep up to date better in the future?
Also, with no blocklist touted as a “feature”, it makes me wonder what notifications if any would either the desktop or the Android version of Waterfox provide you if an app you downloaded from the Mozilla store like the 20+ apps that were found to feeding your web history straight to an unknown IP address. When Mozilla found out, they blacklisted them and removed or disabled them on existing Firefox installations. What does Waterfox do? Does it at least tell you that you should probably get rid of them? Or does it rely on you to be constantly reading tech news and hope that your add-on isn’t too obscure to merit being mentioned in an article when Mozilla takes it down for Firefox users?
I don’t mean to rain on Waterfox’s parade too much. I’m sure it’s a fine browser, and I think the Android platform could use more browser diversity, so it’s good to have it out there. Unlike iOS, Android allows browsers that use their own rendering engines and such, and could in theory develop a Windows like array of choices, which would be good for end-users. However, Firefox for Android, when the preferences are checked the way people them and the appropriate add-ons are installed sounds like a better more secure and up-to-date choice for Android users looking for something other than Google Chrome.
Privacy is great, but I am not sure how much extra privacy Waterfox is actually giving you on Android relative to a customized Firefox install (i.e. with appropriate options toggled and add-ons installed). Security is important, too, as are bug fixes and so on and so forth. Waterfox so far falling behind with versioning until this update is not a good sign on those two things. Usability is important, too- the web needs to work in people’s default browsers.
It might help if Waterfox wasn’t a one-man shop. It might be time to form a foundation and get some other people working on it, especially since it’s now on several platforms. Make sure it stays up to date and gets the security patches promptly, etc..
For now, Firefox for Android seems like the best Android browser out there. Nothing wrong with some healthy competition, though. It’d be nice if both of these browsers and other browsers caught on more and started pushing each other in a competition. Too many people just see that their phone comes with Chrome and use it despite it’s lack of an ad-blocker or extensions of any kind on Android. If more people knew they had a choice, they might be able to get a better Internet experience on their phone, complete with an ad-blocker and/or any other extensions that they like. These browsers gaining real Android marketshare might even cause Google to allow Chrome to ultilize add-ons as they do on Windows. Right now, with a virtual monopoly on Android phones, Google has no need to allow anything that would hit them where it hurts (Their advertising income)."
"Maybe, maybe not — but for a whole lot of people (like myself), Firefox for Android is not an option at all, as the performance is so poor that the browser is quite literally unusable. Whether or not this is true for you apparently depends on the exact device you’re using."
Exactly. That's the exact issue I have with Firefox too.
It's SO DAMN slow and bloated!
It freezes up nearly every time I use it.
"TelV said on August 20, 2018 at 9:58 am
Don’t be fooled by the Brave browser’s adblocker because the intention is to replace third party ads with its own: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/brave-software-publishers-respond/
John Fenderson said on August 20, 2018 at 5:37 pm
I have some pretty serious ethical problems with the Brave browser, so I avoid it.
John Fenderson said on August 20, 2018 at 5:36 pm
@klass: ” I am not impressed with any browsers for Android.”
This is my experience as well. I’ve yet to see an Android browser that even approaches “mediocre”. They’re all pretty bad, and I chose the one I use based on it being the “least worst” choice for me.
I am in your camp — I use the web on my phone as little as I can get away with, as the browser are bad. I find this odd, as pre-Android mobile devices actually managed to do web browsing in a reasonable way. Something got lost along the way."
"“I would be more concerned about that if KiWi wasn’t entirely open source. I personally am comfortable with those permissions for that very reason”
Poor you, this is 2018. There is open source software that spies on you like you’re naked in the street, Firefox being the flagship, this does no longer mean anything about being trustworthy. Let’s also mention the epitome of spyware, Android itself, largely open source, although it’s becoming more and more proprietary with time.
Alas lots of people in the free software community haven’t yet updated their immune system and will fight to death to avoid proprietary software, but welcome warmly any open source malware."
"And don’t forget, Microsoft owns Github."
I didn't know that.
"The WaterFox founder seems so lazy that he basically copied word-for-word the Mozilla site and updated only some parts, look for example on this page: https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/about/forums/
Sorry but I’m not using a browser by someone who forks a browser and gets lazy enough to fork that browser’s site as well, who do you think we’re dealing with? Get some sleep and do good work."
Well, that was quite the journey.
"NetSurf is an open-source web browser which uses its own layout engine. Its design goal is to be lightweight and portable. NetSurf provides features including tabbed browsing, bookmarks and page thumbnailing."
It's very bare and simplistic.
I could see it being useful to browse memo, but not much else.
"SeaMonkey is a free and open-source Internet suite. It is the continuation of the former Mozilla Application Suite, based on the same source code, which itself grew out of Netscape Communicator and formed the base of Netscape 6 and Netscape 7.
SeaMonkey was created in 2005 after the Mozilla Foundation decided to focus on standalone projects such as Firefox and Thunderbird. The development of SeaMonkey is community-driven, in contrast to the Mozilla Application Suite, which until its last released version (1.7.13) was governed by the Mozilla Foundation. The new project-leading group is called the SeaMonkey Council.
Compared to Firefox, the SeaMonkey web browser keeps the more traditional-looking interface of Netscape and the Mozilla Suite. Many XUL-based Firefox and Thunderbird add-ons can be modified for compatibility with SeaMonkey, although add-ons built with the WebExtensions architecture used by newer Firefox versions are not yet compatible."
I'm not seeing much negative about SeaMonkey.
Perhaps I'm just not seeing it yet though.
It looks like another version of FireFox.
Nothing too exciting (which is, actually, rather exciting), except that it's a FireFox that works better so far.
It's going slow, but maybe that's because I have a whole bunch of stuff up.
Then again, SeaMonkey is doing fine in comparison…
Basilisk is a modern, full-featured web browser. It aims to retain useful technologies that its sibling Firefox has removed."
"Basilisk is an open-source web browser created by the developers of the Pale Moon browser. There are releases for Microsoft Windows and Linux, and an unofficial build for macOS.
First released in 2017, Basilisk is a perpetual beta intended to refine the UXP codebase it is built from. Pale Moon and other applications are also built from this codebase.
Like Pale Moon, Basilisk is a fork of Firefox with substantial divergence. Basilisk has the user interface of the Firefox version 29–56 era (unlike Pale Moon, which has the Firefox 4–28 interface).
For add-ons, Basilisk has roughly similar support as Pale Moon for XUL/XPCOM extensions and NPAPI plugins, all of which are no longer supported in Firefox. Basilisk also had experimental support for current Firefox WebExtensions, but this was removed in February 2019.
Unlike Pale Moon, Basilisk has limited support for Widevine DRM and WebRTC."
Oh. That's the Whole entry!
In going to YouTube to see video reviews about Basilisk, I saw stuff about installing Linux-type isos…
and realized that I'm really out of my depth there.
So, I'm sticking with Windows while I test these browsers and search engines.
After I'm done with that, I'll dip into switching more to Linux.
Basilisk also feels pretty much like FireFox, with a little more lag than SeaMonkey.
Then again, I might have too many browsers open at this point.
One thing of note that I saw in another browser - I forget which one - is that the backbutton has weird graphics going on it, which I find annoying and distracting.
As well, the search is fuzzied out and I really don't like that.
Ok, I don't know why it won't start up.
Going back to this one.
It reminds me of, I think, Opera, although I might have the wrong browser in mind.
It has each tab separated from the rest, and the x part is emphasized when you're on it. Besides that, I'm first starting with checking if anything is wrong with the browsers to begin with, before exploring their features.
"Please note that GitHub no longer supports your web browser.
We recommend upgrading to the latest Google Chrome or Firefox."
But, here's some stuff about it:
"Privacy out of the box
Adblock filter list support.
Manage cookies and scripts.
Open a 1000 tabs instantly.
Easy web apps creation.
Customizable side panels.
User scripts and styles a la Greasemonkey.
Web developer tools powered by WebKit.
Cross-browser extensions compatible with Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Vivaldi"
Wow. That's a lot of tabs.
But won't that slow things down?
And how would that look?
I'll try it.
Oh wow I hate it there's no tab management.
… there are literally no settings whatsoever.
What the hell!
And it stopped working and I can't choose to wait for it to work? wtf.
Apparently Midori is current and maintained.
Ok I finally found the settings page (Preferences).
Ok, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to set what the search engine could be, and this browser is giving me a headache. I'll look at it more later. Next.
Immediately informs you that it sends data, and asks if you want to customize what you send. I was using a different browser when I saw that, and after I checked it out the notification went away this next time that I opened the browser.
The experience reminds me of Brave Browser, and the options that are there, I'm impressed with. There's… a lot. Wow. They're literally doing targeted ads too.
They claim to be first. I wonder if they started before Brave.
Wow. There are a LOT of articles comparing Brave, Cliqz, and Chrome.
"I've seen multiple people here and elsewhere propose the Brave browser as an alternative to Firefox. I couldn't believe it when I first read it. Sure, the whole Cliqz incident does not necessarily inspire trust and I can see why people would want to leave Mozilla because of that… But Brave? Come on, that has to be a joke."
"wait, what is wrong with Firefox?
329 points ·
1 year ago
· edited 1 year ago
Mozilla partnered with Cliqz to launch an experiment integrating Cliqz with Firefox, or something, to 0.1% of the German users. There's a page about it. The problem is that this integration requires gathering user data, and Mozilla enabled it by default."
"The experiment Mozilla intends to launch
Mozilla intends to launch a small 'experiment' in Germany, where <1% of new installs for Firefox from Mozilla.org will receive the Cliqz test pilot experiment by default.
Mozilla has a long history with Cliqz, starting with its integration as a Social API provider back in 2013, up until they became a strategic investor in Cliqz in 2016 and later that year launched the test pilot mentioned above.
The strongest concern over this experiment is that users are automatically opted in to something called Human Web, which, while it may conjure up images of mutilation and giant arachnids, means an uncomfortable amount of information is gathered from these users, though it is anonymous."
That is with Human Web disabled. Unfortunately, it's enabled by default.
Human Web is how they index websites - in short, they watch user interactions on traditional search engines, and judge user interaction on the clicked-through websites. It does this by tracking quite a bit more information.
This includes all information typed into the address bar (not just queries that resulted in interaction with Cliqz), seemingly all URLs you visit and how long you visit them, and even information like how much you move your mouse. You can see a complete list of all information gathered here (In German, Google Translate here)"
"(Quick aside- They record exactly one value for mouse movement, which gets iterated (+1) when you move the mouse. This means they aren't recording the actual location of your mouse on a page or even the direction it moved in, just that it moved. Presumably this is to make sure the website is legitimate and useful (the user isn't immediately going back). Source code here)"
"Cliqz' conflict of interest and Mozilla's investment
As mentioned before, Mozilla made a strategic investment in Cliqz and has been working very closely with them since. However, they are not majority owners, which means Cliqz does not have to abide by Mozilla's principles.
They are majority-owned by Hubert Burda Media, a large media group that has a revenue of over €2 billion per year.
Hubert Burda Media own Chip.de, which, which is a computer magazine and website that serves downloads - notable because it has, according to some users, a reputation similar to Cnet or downloads.com, in that it serves malware. I haven't been able to confirm this, anyone German speaking who is aware of this: Please contribute!
/u/MartinsRedditAccount has posted a discussion about this.
Also notably, Hubert Burda Media own Focus, a news magazine, and the reason that Firefox Focus is called Firefox Klar in German.
Cliqz purchased Ghostery in February this year. Ghostery is notable for a number of things over the years. It was publically suggested by Edward Snowden in 2014, but since then there has been negative media about the opt-in feature Ghost Rank, which records page hits, and statistics about ads and blocking, and sells this to advertiser industry groups, including the Better Business Bureau. Cliqz has owned Ghostery only since February of this year, so they were not the deciding factor behind Ghostery's decisions, but it does not seem that it has changed course based on my cursory research."
"Cliqz has a really bad reputation in Germany due to their past actions and it is not surprising that bundling such a product with Firefox while trying to actively conceal this from the users leads to bad reactions."
" Thomas of CLIQZ Says:
January 9, 2015 at 11:26 AM
HI, I am Thomas and take care of the communication at CLIQZ.
We have now made the download process more transparent. Sorry to any users who "accidentally" installed CLIQZ because the option was not presented clearly enough when downloading any other software."
"Thomas by Thomas Says:
February 12, 2015 at 2:57 PM
Dear Thomas of CLIQZ,
I think it's a pretty incongruous insouciance that likes CLIQZ.COM as a Burda subsidiary here. It is always astonishing how brazenly a company in the media industry here tries to compensate for its declining circulation and subscription numbers with new "unwanted services."
That you then half-even apologize with "Sorry to all users" for this doesn't make things any better. All those who open this post are probably fed up with CLIQZ.COM and were never wanted to be your "users."
In my case, CLIQZ.COM's service – – turned out to be extremely annoying, disruptive and completely useless.
So do me and the other "users of CLIQZ.COM" a favor and save yourself the marketing gel, but instead better develop a business model that doesn't need a cunning and pieces to be installed at all."
"One interesting thing I've found on the Cliqz about page, is that they call themselves a "small startup". This is a lie since they're a sub division of Burda Media which is one of the biggest media companies in Europe. How can you trust a company if they even lie on their about page?"
"Cliqz has a really bad reputation in Germany due to their past actions and it is not surprising that bundling such a product with Firefox while trying to actively conceal this from the users leads to bad reactions. No one likes being manipulated into doing something they might not want and due to our history, privacy is a more sensitive topic in Germany than it might be in other countries (probably one of the reasons Firefox is still exceptionally strong here). Reactions on German news sites have been similar to those on reddit.
Privacy is not an issue that can be entirely solved with technology, it is also a very emotional topic. Just the suspicion of being observed can cause a feeling of uneasiness and people will intuitively adapt their behaviour to match the expectations of the observer. If I enter a URL and this URL is transmitted to a third party, it does not matter how difficult it is to trace it back to me. Just the idea of this information being available outside of the scope of my own device, therefore losing control over this information, is enough to cause discomfort and might even have a restraining effect on the users. However, participation on the internet requires sharing of information, so at some point people have to trust another party. But this requires control, the decision about what is shared and with whom is essential for individual freedom and the perceived privacy. We all have secrets and the decision with whom we share them defines our relationship to other people and is something very personal. I might choose to share a secret with my SO but not with my parents, with colleagues at work but not with my sister, with a total stranger but not with anyone I have a personal relationship with. The same applies to my "digital life" where I want to have the last word about what I share and with whom. Respecting the private sphere of the users, their sole sovereignty over their own data, is common decency and can be expected from a company the same way as it can be expected by other people in real life. The desire for statistical information or unbiased data by Mozilla/Cliqz can never outweigh the individual right for privacy and control over their own data.
I've always assumed that Mozilla understands that; they even stated that in their principles:
Protective of the user's privacy and choice
We don't share user data without consent
But that does not reflect their actions and I can understand that people feel betrayed and are upset about this. Some answers by the Mozilla employees on reddit and the hacker news thread were also quite ignorant and have been rightfully downvoted.
Mozilla should respect their users and make the data collection by Cliqz opt-in and as transparent as possible."
18 points ·
1 year ago
I'm just gonna leave this here in case anyone missed it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392855#c5
11 points ·
1 year ago
This is actually worse than I thought it was. Either Mozilla wants to be a Google like company (hoovering up user data) but are thwarted by their user base or they continue to completely misread the reason why people use Firefox. Neither option instills much confidence."
121 points ·
1 year ago
Cliqz is open source, and privacy focused.
This is ridiculous. It is a company that collects user data and processes it to suggest products (because that's what it really does). They are owned by Hubert Burda Media, a huge media group with more than 2 billion revenue in 2016.
These guys don't give a f**k about your privacy. I don't get how anybody could call this "privacy focussed".
When I read that something is privacy focussed, then I expect it to not share my data in any way. I don't care whether it sends data anonymously, I don't care whether it sends data to "enhance my experience". I expect it to respect my privacy and to protect my data and NOT sell it, use it, collect it or do anything else with it.
In their press release Mozilla states:
One of Mozilla’s core privacy principles is No Surprises: we will use and share data in ways that are transparent and benefit our users.
How is that not a contradiction? I'd say it's a huge surprise, when a company calls itself "privacy focussed" and immediately says that it will share my data without even asking me for my permission.
I use Firefox since 2006. I believed in Mozilla as one of the (rare) good guys. Now they lie in bed with a company called "Cliqz" and tell me they do it for my own benefit.
This is all completely fucked."
39 points ·
1 year ago
Do keep in mind that at this point this is a test affecting a very small group of people
Mozilla is invested in sharing and selling user data now. That does affect me and my opinion of them. It's not important whether this "experiment" is running on my system.
Also, I live in germany, and as the "regular computer guy" I used to install Firefox for a lot of people in my circle of friends. I wouldn't do that right now.
I think this does already affect everybody who is using Firefox.
2 points ·
1 year ago
Curious - what are you going to be installing for people instead, have you decided?
I'm going Waterfox right now, but I'm interested to hear what other people's choices are going to be.
5 points ·
1 year ago
· edited 1 year ago
I will wait for a few days and check how this Cliqz thing will work out. I hope that Mozilla changes its course back.
If not I'll either use Pale Moon or Waterfox. I superficially checked several alternatives (Vivaldi, Brave, Chromium), but I'm not really happy with any of them in regards to privacy.
edit: The basilisk browser might be an alternative in the future, but it's too early to tell. It's a new Firefox fork by the devs who made Pale Moon.
3 points ·
1 year ago
Firefox Beta macOS
1 point ·
1 year ago
Chromium … still has a bunch of Google in there I also don't trust.
Could you elaborate on that?
7 points ·
1 year ago
Sure, I learned about it basically from the ungoogled-chromium project, you can read about the Google stuff the project removes here: https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium"
"Truth is this is not the first time this kind of discussion came about. Mozilla has come forth before to admit they need more analytics but not enough users opt-in, so they were strongly considering changing some analytics to opt-out. This whole Cliqz business seems to fall in line with that train of though. "Users would never accept this, user hate change, so let's just bury it in the code"."
11 points ·
1 year ago
Cliqz employee here with a throwaway account. This is my personal opinion only and this might differ in certain aspects from Cliqz'.
A lot of the drama of the past couple of days arose because of poor communication and because of a general misunderstanding of the situation at hand. I will try not to go into details of all the general aspects that people have raised, but I would like to give you some context as to why I believe our mission, the mission of Cliqz, is so important.
The current search engine market situation is a problem for people using the internet. That is why we've created Cliqz and that is why a competitor in the market is so important. Everybody in Germany is using a single search engine, Google (http://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share/desktop-mobile/germany/#yearly-2016-2017), and everybody is feeding them with even more (private) data every day. What we're actually seeing is a monopoly that is almost impossible to break up and with billions of dollars in the bank (https://yourstory.com/2017/05/apple-q2-2017/), it is almost impossible for a startup to become a reasonable competitor to Google. Here is why this is bad for companies: Companies in Germany (and all over the world) are dependent on Google's traffic. From one day to another a companies business model could go belly up, because Google decides to change their search algorithm. Here is why this is bad for people: Data of most Germans is somewhere on of the millions of Google servers across the globe and it is impossible for anybody to understand where the data is, what data it is and how it was generated. We further feed the beast using Android phones, Google Maps, Google Search, Gmail, Google Fonts, Chrome, Google fibre, Pixel phones, Google analytics, you name it. Hence, Hubert Burda Media decided to found Cliqz for two reasons: first, to create a competitor to Google and to reduce the market power they have and second, to create a valid business model that does not rely on print magazines. The Google dominance is also why Firefox decided to cooperate with Cliqz. Google pays billions of dollars to be default in search fields all over the world including Firefox.(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/09/25/google-replaces-bing-become-apples-default-siri-search-engine/; https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/google-paying-apple-3-billion-to-remain-default-search--bernstein.html; http://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-hits-the-jackpot-with-almost-billion-dollar-google-deal/) The reason being: Google needs more search queries so that they have more data about you in order target more and better advertisements against you that convert better. The problem for Mozilla – People will land on Google, whenever they search with Firefox in Germany (and nobody every changes their default search engine – yes people do, but these are power users that you belong to being on Reddit) and this results in more data for Google, but Mozilla's entire mission is to actually protect the user. This is where Cliqz comes into play – a freaking transparent and open search engine that protects the user's privacy. When you have Cliqz as default for 1% of users you reduce the number of visits to Google. For that to be beneficial you will have to trust Cliqz. That is why we are open source and that is why we are transparent in everything we do. To prove that we are certified by third parties, we engage with the communicty (meetups, conferences), we write papers and much more. Furthermore, Cliqz protects you when you browse through the web by removing any sensitive data points out of data that is being sent back to trackers.
To be fair we did a poor and really bad job communicating this. We should have communicated it better, we should have worked closer with Firefox when releasing the press release. We should have engaged with the communities beforehand.
The Hubert Burda Media connection: they founded Cliqz and they have a commercial interest. But, you have to understand the relationship between the two companies. Hubert Burda does not have any access to anything we do. Period. We report our financial figures and strategic direction to them on a quarterly basis. That is it.
What we all have to grasp is, though. It is not beneficial for the user if every new startup that is trying to get a foot in the door (in the search market) is bashed into oblivion. Experts like us, people who engage in the community, who try to question what corporates are doing in data/privacy space need to educate themselves by reading through the information at hand and not by merely reading a headline and then bashing all parties involved.
Let's make the web a better place together."
" Can you provide links?
Cliqz Github open source: https://github.com/cliqz-oss
Whitepaper titled Tracking and Online Banking: A Survey: https://cliqz.com/content/2-aboutus/3-presse/9-pressemitteilung-cliqz-tracking-beim-online-banking/cliqz-study-tracking-in-online-banking.pdf
Cliqz anti tracking whitepaper presentation: https://static.cliqz.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/cliqz_whitepaper_tracking1.pdf"
" Unfortunately, we have zero way of knowing this is true.
Agreed. The only way we can prove this is by acting accordingly."
10 points ·
1 year ago
· edited 1 year ago
Okay you made some really good points and your arguments actually started to bring me around a little.
But the enormous problem, and I'm sure you're well aware of this, is that when something is done quietly, with opt-out, and little to no accompanying announcement explaining what it is, it is absolutely 100% natural to be concerned this is Firefox being swept up in the powerful tides leading businesses around the world into a user exploitation model.
If someone wants to be seen as open and honest, their words and actions need to be open and honest too.
If Firefox had have stepped up on a pedestal, addressed it's user base and said, "Hey everyone, this is Cliqz, this is their mission, this is why we believe in it, and we'd like you to get on board too" we could have had an open and honest community discussion about it.
Instead, it's been done in a way that looks like it's being deliberately obscured to drive up participation rates.
At the very least, let the early adopters go in fully voluntarily with eyes open. Let the community see first hand what the picture is, and then if it really is good for users they will likely evangelize it.
When something is done on the quiet people are forced to assess what is being hidden and why.
And I mean, thanks for your post it's helpful, but the fact the first I'm hearing from the companies in question is from an anonymous throw away account also leaves me wondering why we're not getting direct communication saying just what you have said?
I love the Firefox end user experience, I love the way Mozilla supports open source projects, but I'm with Firefox because I'm tired of having to watch my back and second guess things all the time with other browsers.
All I want is for Firefox not to put me in a position where I have to second guess it too, like every other piece of software these days. It's exhausting. And for that I'm absolutely going to need forthright communication before something that monitors me and harvests my data is rolled out.
I'll be open minded if an extremely good case is stated, but if someone expects to monitor and harvest on the quiet, absolutely no way."
3 points ·
1 year ago
I hear you and mistakes have clearly been made.
And I mean, thanks for your post it's helpful, but the fact the first I'm hearing from the companies in question is from an anonymous throw away account also leaves me wondering why we're not getting direct communication saying just what you have said?
I see where you are coming from, but I only have a private Reddit account that I do not want linked to my actual identity. Plus, with the discussions being so heated at the moment I want it to stay that way. When things are calming down this could change."
7 points ·
1 year ago
This is where Cliqz comes into play – a freaking transparent and open search engine that protects the user's privacy.
In everything I've read the last few days I don't see this.
I don't see transparency; I don't see openness; and I don't see protection of privacy.
I see "Google lite".
There is no binary choice between Cliqz and Google. Those of us who care about this stuff already use Startpage, Duckduckgo, Searx.me, etc. And yes, that probably includes German users who you claim only use Google.
From what I've read, I simply don't trust you, and am concerned about your future direction if Mozilla allows you to get your foot in the door.
I'm sure that for many users Google lite is a good thing, and yes it is good to have competition in the market.
But you're not coming near my computers."
Nightly | Manjaro Linux
3 points ·
1 year ago
I don't understand why firefox would go for Cliqz when DuckDuckGo is trusted by a lot of users already. They don't need to buy a company or anything, just put DuckDuckGo as default search engine. Wouldn't that be way easier ? I'm genuinely asking. Would have this been with DuckDuckGo, I don't think there would have ever been a problem.
2 points ·
1 year ago
Mozilla is now a very large corporation (albeit non profit). Their deal with Yahoo alone nets them 375million dollars p.a.
That's a huge amount of income that needs protection, now and in the future.
It's reasonable to assume that a Cliqz deal offers better returns than a duck deal.
Anyways - for default search - Moz is locked into deals with Yahoo, Yandex, Baidu, and almost certainly Google (tho the google deal seems very secret; I'd welcome info on it)
3 points ·
1 year ago
Unfortunately, the missing link here is that DuckDuckGo does not have their own index as /u/doofy666/ stated correctly. They use Bing, Yahoo and Yandex. Furthermore, they monetise using Bing ads and ads mean profile building and sending your data to Microsoft. They stay vague on the specifics."
"Data can be either useful or perfectly anonymous but never both."
"Why You Shouldn’t Use Firefox Forks Like Waterfox, Pale Moon, or Basilisk"
"What’s New in Firefox Quantum, the Firefox You’ve Been Waiting For"
"Despite Firefox Quantum’s Success, Mozilla Has Lost Its Way"
"Why I Switched From Chrome to Firefox Quantum"
"If you missed the news, last week Mozilla began automatically installing an add-on named “Looking Glass” for Firefox users. The add-on had the cryptic description “MY REALITY IS JUST DIFFERENT THAN YOURS”, with no explanation of what it was or how it appeared. To be honest, it looked a lot like malware, which startled many users.
It turns out, the add-on was a tie-in for the TV show Mr. Robot, and installing it on users’ computers was part of a “Shield Studies” feature that’s designed to make Firefox better. You’re automatically opted in to this by default, and even if you disable it, many Firefox users report that Shield Studies will occasionally re-enable itself when you update Firefox. So good luck disabling it for good!
According to Mozilla’s website, seven separate people have to sign off on any given study, meaning seven separate people decided this Mr. Robot stunt was okay. One of Mozilla’s core principles that it claims to care about is “No Surprises“. Mozilla definitely doesn’t take that principle seriously anymore.
They quickly updated the add-on with a description, before backing off even further and removing it for everyone. But here’s what really makes me angry: They didn’t seem to understand why users are upset. A Mozilla representative gave Engadget a very defensive statement on Saturday, basically blaming users for not understanding the promotion and how awesome it was:
Our goal with the custom experience we created with Mr. Robot was to engage our users in a fun and unique way. Real engagement also means listening to feedback. And so while the web extension/add-on that was sent out to Firefox users never collected any data, and had to be explicitly enabled by users playing the game before it would affect any web content, we heard from some of our users that the experience we created caused confusion.
After much foot dragging, Mozilla released a statement on Monday, apologizing for the way this was handled and pledging to do better."
"How did it work
Fans of the show enabled this game in Firefox by turning on the “Looking Glass” add-on effect via preferences setting. When enabled, and the user navigated to Mr. Robot’s ARG page, a clue necessary to advance the puzzle would be revealed. When enabled, the add-on would also invert text from a list of words related to the shows themes, throughout the web for a few seconds.
Instead of giving users the choice to install this add-on, we initially pushed an update to Firefox that installed the “Looking Glass” add-on for English speaking users. This add-on was installed and set to ‘OFF’ and made no changes in the user experience unless it was explicitly turned on by a user, but it was added. Even when turned on no user data was collected or shared.
The rollout did not meet the standards to which we hold ourselves causing concern that was surfaced through our Firefox community. We received feedback regarding the transparency of the rollout and the processes that govern our auto-install mechanism for add-ons. In response we immediately started our internal review, updated the add-on with a better description and began the process to move the Mr. Robot Looking Glass tie-in to the add-ons site as a regular WebExtension. We also shared the source in a public repository.
To our community
We’re sorry for the confusion and for letting down members of our community. While there was no intention or mechanism to collect or share your data or private information and The Looking Glass was an opt-in and user activated promotion, we should have given users the choice to install this add-on.
We recognize that real engagement means listening to feedback. We took immediate actions to correct this, and we are conducting a formal internal review to ensure our technical, legal and communications processes and policies are updated for the future.
We take seriously our responsibility to provide a trusted, secure platform for your online life and will always work to maintain the trust of our users.
We’re doing a post-mortem and are going to make changes to our processes. These will be public and we will link to a public list of process changes, likely mid-January.
By Jascha Kaykas-Wolff, Chief Marketing Officer"
"Looking Glass is an official add-on. The only reason why it may be installed automatically is if you have enabled SHIELD Studies in Firefox.
The Firefox browser comes with SHIELD Studies enabled for select users. SHIELD Studies is a special option which allows the user to try different features and ideas before they are released to all Firefox users. It is like the Insider Program of Windows 10, but is only applicable to a few experimental features of the browser.
To see the studies you're participating in, type about:studies into your Firefox address bar.
Tip: To disable Shield studies, you need to disable the option "Allow Firefox to install and run studies." as described in the article:
Disable SHIELD Studies in Firefox"
"Disable SHIELD Studies in Firefox
The Firefox browser comes with SHIELD Studies enabled for select users. SHIELD Studies is a special option which allows the user to try different features and ideas before they are released to all Firefox users. It is like the Insider Program of Windows 10, but is applicable only to a few experimental features of the browser. Let's see how to enable or disable it.
Mozilla describes it as follows:
When a study is available, you will automatically be enrolled if you meet the criteria. There will be occasions where we might prompt you for participation first. This will happen when a particular study needs to collect data that is not covered by default data collection policy. In these situations you'll see a complete disclosure of the data being collected in the study before you make the decision to participate. Firefox Pioneer is an example of an opt-in SHIELD study."
"A SHIELD study must always be named accurately.
We were deliberately misleading in the naming of this add-on. The intentions were to preserve the surprise and delight of users participating in the Mr Robot Alternate Reality Game, but it also violated our own advice for users, particularly where it pertains to recognizing malware."
"After much foot dragging, Mozilla released a statement on Monday, apologizing for the way this was handled and pledging to do better. But they only apologized after repeatedly trying to brush those user concerns off. Mozilla just didn’t seem to care, and they have a lot of soul searching to do.
This isn’t the only example of Mozilla’s out-of-character stunts, either—just the latest."
"Similarly, Mozilla’s integration of the Pocket read-it-later service still rubs many users the wrong way, too. Years ago, Mozilla partnered with a third-party proprietary service to integrate it directly into the Firefox. You can only disable Pocket through about:config, and while I personally like Pocket, that doesn’t mean it should be a part of Firefox for everyone."
Discussing alts on intruging site, voat
And getting off Google Maps is a good idea.
"Related: now in Google Maps
“if you want to save a home or work address in Google Maps, you now have to allow activity tracking throughout Google services.”
"Google to give Chrome users an opt-out to ‘forced login’ after privacy backlash
"Why You Shouldn’t Use (Most) Alternative Browsers Based on Google Chrome"
"Why You Shouldn’t Use Firefox Forks Like Waterfox, Pale Moon, or Basilisk"
"Let’s look at the most recent major release: Mozilla released Firefox 57 on November 14, 2017. Waterfox’s developers released Waterfox 56 that incorporated the security updates found in Firefox 57 on November 30, 2017. We don’t think waiting more than two weeks for security updates is a good idea!
Here’s a more recent example from a minor release: On January 23, 2018, Mozilla released Firefox 58 and Firefox ESR 52.6 with a variety of security fixes. Three days later, the Waterfox project said it was working on integrating these patches on Twitter. On February 1, 2018, Waterfox 56.0.4 was released with these patches. That means Waterfox users waited nine days for a security patches from a minor release, compared to if they were just using Firefox. We don’t think it’s a good idea to wait that long."
"More importantly, basing a browser on such old code makes security patches harder. Pale Moon’s developer tries to keep up with Firefox security patches, but he’s maintaining old code that Mozilla has abandoned. Mozilla reportedly has over a thousand employees, while Pale Moon has one primary developer, trying to maintain a huge amount of code that’s becoming increasingly outdated. The older code also omits features that help make modern browsers so secure, like the multi-process sandboxing features that have finally arrived in Firefox Quantum.
Besides, Pale Moon tends to perform worse on browser benchmarks compared to modern browsers, which isn’t surprising given its age. The developer disagrees with browser benchmarking, but it’s not surprising a browser based on four year old code might be slower than a modern one."
"Basilisk is a new browser from the creator of Pale Moon. While Pale Moon is based on Firefox 38 ESR, Basilisk is based on newer Firefox code. The developer is working on the “Unified XUL Platform (UXP)”, which is a fork of Mozilla’s code without the new Servo and Rust code that makes Firefox Quantum so fast. It also doesn’t enable any multi-process features.
A future version of Pale Moon will be based on this code, but right now the developer considers Basilisk an unstable development platform.
This fits Pale Moon’s kind of weird history. The first major version of Pale Moon was based on Firefox 24 ESR, due to a disagreement about where Firefox was headed. But the developer eventually had to switch to Firefox 38 ESR to get more modern features. Now, the developer is doing the same thing again, basing this new version largely on the pre-Quantum Firefox code. We don’t see the point of resisting new features only to make a major leap to them every few years anyway. Just stick with a browser that’s continually updated, like Firefox.
As for why you shouldn’t use this browser, aside from the same security and usability concerns inherent with Pale Moon, even the developer says it’s “development software” that should be considered beta.
These aren’t the only Firefox-based browsers out there, but they are the most popular—and most others will likely come with similar issues. It’s best to stick with a browser that has a big team behind it so security problems can be caught, fixed, and patched as fast as possible."
Or, how about, have the developers switch to a more privacy-based model that honors the original FireFox code while blogging about it on sites that use peer-to-peer micropayments, ending the pressure to include ads to fund the web browser developers so they have a roof over their heads and can pay the bills?
It seems incredibly short-sighted to dismiss the basic reason for FireFox existing based on security updates, when the entire issue itself IS the lack of security/privacy!
Or, is the point that security > privacy?
Falkon is based on some search thing, and Chronium.
A review of it:
It compared alongside 4 others:
There's not much on it.
It seems like a combination of the barebones browsers with the FireFox alts.
Starts with a blank tab.
I can't tell if the Dooble I'm using is going to keep being updated. The page that has the download I'm using,
says, "All good things must come to an end. Ten years of Dooble. Please visit the next-generation Dooble."
And the page I'm sent to have the same reason for me to not install as mentioned at the beginning of this:
I see mainly good stuff on the wiki:
I see next to nothing on it when I search.
I found only like 5 sites on it.
Huh. Only really that one directly related to it.
"Dooble review: A security-conscious web browser"
And that's the end of my first go-through of those browsers.
I'm talking with xirtus on Discord about a Minds issue and going to learn some GitLab now. I told him about Ian talking about open-source vs free, and I'm trying to re-source where he said that.
@Ezincrypto on Cent asked me if I made a post about memo.cash.
While I have, it's been a while since I've made a post about all the social networks I use… and, well, that whole thing could use a bit of an update.
About a month ago I was trying to stretch my testing at around 16-ish social networks, interconnecting and using all of them, which was exhausting, but incredibly interesting.
But also exhausting.
I also made a post where I linked all the profiles I have.
In this post, I'm going to cover which ones are my favorite, first, and why I'm still using them, so you can start using them too if you'd like, sooner than later, and then which ones I've stopped using, and why.
Obviously, I'm still using Memo.
Memo is currently essentially similar to Twitter, mainly in terms of how long of posts you can make, although it technically has the ability to expand.
What's great about Memo is that it can't be censored since it's on the blockchain, you can tip people a custom amount, or simply like their posts without tipping. Every action is on the blockchain (both BCH-SV (BSV) and BCH-ABC (BCH)), but the cost of the actions is so small (244 sats), that's it's practically free. Likewise, the minimum tip you can do is 546 sats, which is also practically nothing. (Currently, $1 USD = 27,795 Satoshi)
People have speculated about the idea of the price of 1 satoshi being $1, and I think that's missing the point, just as the idea of holding bitcoin until it gets to $20,000 and plus to make tons of money.
Why? Because that's the short game, not the long game.I'm not saying appreciating that idea is bad, but if it's your sole motivation, you're selling the potential and point of the project of bitcoin short:
Financial freedom worldwide, where anyone can trade and with anyone else without a middleman, without censorship. And yeah, you'll make a ton of money in the process in bits and pieces over time. So will everyone else. If only you benefit, and you're only focused on your own benefit, you're going to lose out on the biggest boon that the combination of crypto with social networks makes possible.
You can see, for instance, on aforementioned post talking about the $1 idea, that crypto-conspiracies would go to a site to just cash out 217 sats each hour. I get tips that exceed that every day on memo, just by posting the same way I would on Facebook! (After all, the minimum is 546.)
And I haven't even touched on my favorite feature of memo:
I've long had a dream that each and every reply you make to someone could be its own post. Memo has that!I also tested it out and posted about it on matter.cash… and if it wasn't currently down for upgrading*, I'd share the example I posted to there. The ironic issue with that is that if there are enough replies, well… your computer slows to a crawl trying to load everything!
*"Serverless blogs and tokenized communities on Bitcoin SV metanet.
Coming soon. Join the publishing revolution."
Honest.cash solved for that.
After 5 responses deep, "Load more replies"
I was on Honest before Cent, and for a while, Honest.cash was easier to use than Cent.
However, currently, "Cent is easy copy-paste" compared with Honest.
So, I'm consistently using Memo, and Honest and Cent are battling for my attention, with Cent currently in the overall lead because it's the only site with easy copy-paste + hyperlinking.
Obviously, I'm also using Facebook, but the whole idea of all of this is that Facebook is a censoring fascist controlling anti-human data-grubbing Big Brother monstrosity, so even though it's still the most advanced in terms of social interactivity, it's a terrible idea not to spread out to other social networks that have a freedom mindset with freedom tools.
One difference to note regarding Memo, Honest, and Cent, is that Memo and Honest use Bitcoin, whereas Cent uses Ethereum.
Now, for the sites that I'm using much less, and why, starting with the more popular ones:
Steemit is by far the most famous alternative social network. It's payout scheme confuses me to no end, and if you don't have the social credits to post, you can't.
It's a mess, though still quite a popular option for a lot of people.
You might enjoy it too. I occasionally post there, but rarely.
Weku is based off of an older version of Steemit, with the intent to do the money stuff differently, without/against the use of whales. Until some weird stuff happened with my password, it was one of my go-to's for posting.
Now… not so much.
Minds is almost as popular as Steemit.
Bill Ottman, co-founder, has spoken a lot on YouTube about the philosophy of going toward open-source.
One of the key features of Minds is the Boost feature, where you can show your posts to everyone, or a select group of people, and the cost is tokens, which you can earn by posting to Minds and logging in each day. Initially, you could make posts that were private/unlisted, and provide the link, making it similar to YouTube's unlisted. Now, there's only the option for public/subscribed. Some people enjoy using Minds.
I'm not very fond of the format myself. It feels very spammy and random to me.
MeWe is presented as an alternative to Facebook, and lots of Facebook people have eschewed Facebook for MeWe.
Apparently, you can't be censored on MeWe, and there's lots of nudity on there.
However, you cannot link your posts to anywhere else, which is why I don't use MeWe:
It's a closed system.
Yours was created by Ryan X. Charles, who is now focused on The Money Button, from what I understand.
Yours was the first website I was aware of to utilize the combination of the finances of Bitcoin Cash with social networks.
Yours has an incentivized and ranking voting system, and you can learn about it by visiting it's channel.
Here's an interview with ColbertReport, as well.
Some current flaws that are fatal for my wanting to use, talk about, or promote Yours include that you cannot currently join the site, you cannot reply to comments, and it was down for 1-2 months recently with no explanation from Ryan whatsoever.
This has been a lot of writing, so I'm going to go through these last ones a bit faster, with less detail, and if you want to check them out for yourself, feel free.
And, before I go to some less well-known sites, a quick shoutout to two growing Patreon alternatives:
Now, for some less well-known sites:
Ello functions in a way similar to Instagram, Facebook, and Weku/Steemit/Cent, in my mind, in that posts are laid out in a very visual style (that I'm not especially fond of), and you can hyperlink text. There is, however, no earnings program. Aside from the visual format, it is quite close to the aim I had to make what I called "Social Wiki", an idea of combining the social elements of Facebook with the deep linking of Wikipedia.
Sola seems to function similar to Steemit, in that you need to have enough credits to post, though instead of a sort-of related app like eSteem, Sola has its own app.
I made a few posts and then ran out of credit, and stopped using the app. I'm looking at it again and I can post again, though I find the layout very disorienting.
There's only one thing you need to know about Smoke:
ONLY POST MARIJUANA CONTENT.
(Or just mostly, like 80-90%)
Seriously. That's all you need to know.
I at first was overjoyed by finding it, because its format looks like a direct copy of Steemit/Weku, but it has an app!
I was in heaven. I first found out they didn't like the association with Weku.
I then quickly found that the community there HATES it when people post ANYTHING on a regular basis if it isn't weed related. Don't even bother if it's not about weed. Seriously. They can't censor you, but you will not enjoying being there AT ALL.
And that's why I stopped posting there.
For a hot second I got the same impression from Cent that I got from Smoke, but that's faded since.
I'm not sure what Whaleshares is or how it functions.
I'm still trying to sign up.
Well, you don't have to post just porn there, as Disenthrall found out.
And now, for some miscellaneous stuff…
There are also alternative videos sites:
D.tube is connected with Steemit. Whatever you post to D.tube is posted to your Steemit.
I've been having the darndest time uploading videos to there though.
You log into Keyport via your HandCash, which uses BSV.
Keyport is currently down and under development.
You can earn for each minute/second of content of yours that people watch, or you can set it for free, and people only pay the fee for the video to be seen via the service… I think. I've had more success with uploading to Keyport than I have with D.tube, although it's still quite difficult and generally I can only post short clips, although I've seen others post much longer ones.
BitChute enables you to hook up your YouTube to make your content more resistant to censorship. It can be a bit of a process, but quite worth it in this censorship day and age of YouTube.
I haven't had much experience with Bit.tube, but here's a mention for it.
But here's a video from Disenthrall about it.
As well, there are alternate audio sites:
There are also up-and-coming sites:
There's is also a push to include adult content on the blockchain:
SpankChain, where you can be tipped in crypto.
I'm on Chaturbate, and the difference of difficulty for signing up is quite apparent, as while on Chaturbate you don't need to give your information to watch, unless you're also a performer yourself, you have to give all that information (like your license) upfront. The process, I've found, is much more difficulty than I was expecting, and I still haven't signed up.
This certainly got exhausting to write.
It's also going to be exhausting to cross-post.
However, this is one of the few posts where cross-posting is relevant, makes sense, and matters.
That's weird that it was so easy to copy-paste from Weku to Yours. I like that. Minds, Honest. I like how Ello automatically includes the Weku format into links. Cent, Facebook, Memo, Bitbacker, Steemit. (Thank goodness the links transferred from Weku to Honest!)
On Cent, fb, memo
I've had an ongoing interest in flat earth for two reasons:
1. I see Flat Earthers as generally having gone down a rabbit hole of gullibility, and want to see if I can help them out of it.
2. I want to know if Flat Earth has any veracity to it. Until I can conclusively and logically eliminate it as making sense, I'm going to check in every once in a while.Recently I saw a zetetic (which I think is an admirable though naive way of investigating the world - using only your senses, which we know can be wrong) comment.
So I checked out the referenced video.
I skimmed it at first and saw no mention of Flat Earth, and commented about such. Then, when I was able to just listen to something while doing something different, I gave it a closer listen.
At aroudn 30 minutes is when it gets interesting and the Copernicanaian (Sun-centric) view of the universe is challenged.
At around 1 hour in the physicists talk about how anything that suggests a Geocentric model, in the scientific community, is dismissed, and that NASA also gets rid of pictures that suggest such.While this does not point by necessity to a Flat Earth, it certainly lays the groundwork for the reconsideration of it, reminding me, as well, of the combination of evolution with creation as the middle-ground truth, with neither The Church/Institutions nor Scientists/Institutions (ideological inertia from opposite sides of the spectrum) having the full picture of things. I'm going to revisit Santos Bonacci's Flat Earth videos and give it another think. He's also made some new ones.
On Cent, all YouTube videos embed and then self-delete when doing edits, so I made a facebook link that has the relevant videos.
Since Honest doesn't have that problem, here they are:
STATIONARY Flat Earth Presentation: santos bonacci (3 yr old)
Santos Bonacci on Flat Earth, Firmament, Primum Mobile, Taurus Fields and Syncretism (2 yr old)
Flat Earth IS scientific, globe Earth is NOT (2 mo ago)
Magnetism on a Stationary Horizontal flat earth, Santos bonacci (1 yr old)
Santos Bonacci Flat Earth Interview on GLOBEBUSTERS (3 yr old)
Flat Earth Conspiracy Debate with Santos Bonacci on Nature of Reality Radio
Santos Bonacci on Flat Earth, Graham Hancock, Jordan Maxwell & Tesla
Santos Bonacci on Flat Earth - Santa's Ball In 5
Santos Bonacci on Flat Earth, Jesuits, Zionists, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton and More
Veritas Radio - Santos Bonacci - 1 of 2 - Flat Earth: Geocentrism vs. Heliocentrism
Santos Bonacci on the Flat Earth, Geocentric Earth vs Heliocentric Deception
A somewhat crappy playlist for more on The Principle.
Includes that it's being censored!
"Thoughtcrime: The Conspiracy to Stop The Principle"
GEOCENTRICITY - THOUGHT CRIME
"The Principle" Under Attack
On Cent, Memo, fb
Often in conversations I'm accused of projecting, and I've wondered about how I could bring up the topic without that being included, that "You're projecting that I'm projecting." So…
How would you know if you're projecting?
If you tell someone that they're projecting and they claims the reverse of you, how would you know if they're right?
"Psychological projection is a form of defense mechanism in which someone attributes thoughts, feelings, and ideas which are perceived as undesirable to someone else."
Here are some things to consider:
1. Are you irritated or grouchy?
2. Does what's irritating you persist?
"The theory is that if you think your friend is self-centered and selfish and it continues to bother you, it’s very likely that you yourself are self-centered and selfish and either won’t admit it or don’t recognize it."
3. Do you have a hard time admitting your own flaws?
4. Are you the only person who sees this flaw?
(If you're in a group with people of one side of an argument and you're outnumbered, this probably isn't a helpful question.)
5. You have been described the same way you described this person.
The solution? "[S]tart by being mindful and conscious."
Here are some various things you can do.
However, that doesn't really help for internet conversations.
People aren't exactly inclined to do some internal introspection if you say to them, "Hey, you're projecting. Perhaps some introspection would help? Here are some links…"
Usually, that ends up being explosive and you're accused of projecting, yourself. This is actually a lot of why I've been so focused on the ICE method, of bringing people with me via humor and laughter, to be able to see the ideas they are or perhaps now were advocating, to be silly and ridiculous.
Namely, how can someone who is projecting be enabled to save face?
How can you speak with someone whom you think is projecting without it feeling condescending for them? That's something I'm trying to answer, and I think once it's answered, a whole new world of interaction will open up.
(Will the @ in the title do anything? A @Xerographica here?)
Cent now has follows, and I immediately thought of Xerographica; I voted up Xerographica's post that goes into much more detail about the benefits of comparative voting and using real money on homework projects that are uploaded to Cent by students, recommending the usage of both sites.
I already agree with this idea, so even though ...
I scrolled down until I couldn't.
This is my first notification:
- honest_cash upvoted your post "So, you have to have a title, even if you're replying? . Jan 26th 19"
I have a question about it:
Does that mean the notification system was implemented on the 26th?
What do you think?...
It's been a while - I've sort of "moved" to a new spot and just got wifi - and the first thing I'm greeted with - well, that I notice - is the 37 notifications that I have. I clicked on someone's profile and went to their page and saw a post I found interesting. Followed them.
And when I refreshed, there were 36 notifications.
That's better than memo's system where the whole t...
It's been a while.
I mean a while since I was writing on the Honest.cash platform.
I was writing on Smoke.io, transferring it to ello, and copying the finished product to Honest.cash. I "broke up" with Smoke. They want Cannabis.
Cannabis cannabis cannabis.
Sure, and other topics too. And cannabis cannabis cannabis.
Cannabis cannabis cannabis.
Got a sense of why I left?
Also on Smoke, Weku, Cent
Oh my goodness here comes a dreaded cross post! Avoid the upvote!
Make sure to ask me to be on topic!
THE TOPIC IS CANNIBIS AND DON'T YOU FERGIT IT!!!
"Open minded thinkers welcome
All types of voices find a place on Smoke. Cannabis content about the plant, society, lifestyle, health & wellness, politics, news, markets, growing, smoking, reviewing s...
On Smoke, ello, Weku, Cent, Memo, Honest
I think I just had a really bad experience with weed, but I'm not sure. It's the only thing I can think of that might be the reason for it.
I suddenly needed to lay down, but I fell down. Broke part of my glasses, although fortunately they're not destroyed and I can wear them.
I need to be gentle with them though.
On a semi-related note, the apartmen...
I don't only post off-topic stuff. I also love pot!
And since I've got my pot out that I've been enjoying, I figured I'd share a few pictures (hmmm will it upload here? nope):
Hm. Seems like it only worked for the first one. I put the cursor in the description box and pressed "selecting them". It uploaded, b...
I've been using Smoke the same way that I use the other social networks sites I've been testing.
I was informed on my last post that that's maybe not a good idea, per the Community Guildlines.
But, I don't see anything prohibiting the creation of "off-topic" content… and why is there even such a topic, then? What will happen if I continue posting here on Off-Topic?
Will my account be banned? ...
I made a new Castbox account?
On Minds, ello, Bitbacker, Weku, Smoke
Smoke is much kinder for editing in several ways:
1. It has an app.
2. I can just hold at the end of the line of text to paste, instead of putting in text like on Weku.
3. Four features - Commenting, editing, deleting, Link to post - at bottom of post, in that order.
It's taking a bit to get used to but I re...
Yours, Sola, CastBox (Audio/Podcast w/ pause&linking), Steemit (broadcast error) - Use eSteem To Bypass Steemit Failure…Or Not (Trello Instead?), Honest, Cent, Weku, Smoke, ello, Minds, BitBacker, Chaturbate, Pornhub, Memo
Hi. Two Questions - 1. Is this site a clone of Weku? 2. Smoking Violation Of TOS?
And I Can Log In Now! (On Castbox)...